Quran and Bible Prophecies
-----
Original Message -----
From: Farzin Aghdasi Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 9:25 PM Subject: Biblical Quotes in the Iqan Dear All, Susan had
asked about quotations from the Bible in the Iqan. Here are a few comments on
this subject: There are
about a dozen places in the Iqan where Baha'u'llah quotes from the Bible.
To begin with we should keep in mind that most discussions in the Islamic
world do not include reference to the text of the Bible. Some of this relates
to the "corruption of the word" issue which is discussed in the Iqan at some length. We will address this
issue a little later. Also
Baha'u'llah would use the Arabic version of the Bible which was in common
circulation at the time. Then He would translate this text (sometimes verbatim)
into Persian. What we read is Shoghi Effendi's English rendition of this
material. Therefore most quotations are not exact replication of any English
version of the Bible. A few quotations are close to the modern day English versions
of the Bible while others may be similar only in gist. Because the
Supreme Manifestation of God himself is first quoting then translating, and
then elaborating on the significant meanings of parts of the Bible, we get very
interesting illumination of the text. A large
portion of part one of the Book deals with the interpretation of Mathew
24:29-31. "Immediately after the oppression of those days .... "
until "... And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a
trumpet". See also Mark 13:26 and Luke 21:27 which repeat this same
account with slightly different wording. Paras 24, 66, 74, 79, and 86 in Iqan
deal with this quotation. Para 26
deals with Luke 21:33 "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words
shall not pass away." Paras 19 and
20 deal with John 14:28, "I go away and come again unto you", see
also John 14:16-18, and 16:12-14. Para 70
deals with Mathew 2:2 "Where is He that is born King of the Jews? for we
have seen His star in the east and are come to worship Him!", and also
Mathew 3:1-2, "John the Baptist was preaching in the wilderness of Judea,
and saying, Repent ye: for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand". In part 2
of the Iqan there are 8 references to the Bible. These we will cover later. In contrast
there are 139 quotations from the Qur'an. Because it is difficult to read the
Qur'an by itself, one way of getting to know this holy text is to start
with reading these quotations in context. That would give a Baha'i who is not
familiar with the Qur'an a starting point. With much love Farzin ________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Ford"
<susanford@yebo.co.za To: "Farzin Aghdasi"
<farzin.aghdasi@attbi.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 2:25 AM Subject: QUESTION: QURAN/BIBLE PROPHESIES Dear Farzin : QUESTION ONE: I am having a hard time keeping track of
which Manifestation Baha'u'llah is quoting sometimes. For instance the "His" in sentence one in Iqan para 31. To me personally, it doesn't matter. It only matters when I am having a dialogue
with a Christian, as I was last night about the "sun shall be darkened ...
stars shall fall from heaven"
(Iqan 31). I recognize it from
the New Testament (Revelations I think although I cannot quote chapter and
verse). Is that what Baha'u'llah is
quoting here? Is this prophesy also in
the Quran? I have never yet met a lay Christian who
knows that (the essence of) the Old and
New Testaments are contained in the Quran.
There is huge surprise when I have mentioned this point - usually in a
dialogue about Progressive Revelation. So now, in relation to the Iqan, and my
desire to discuss it's fascinating content with Christians, has there ever been
a reference prepared which compares prophesies contained in the Quran to
similar/same prophesies contained in the Bible? I ask this because most of the prophesies footnoted in the
current readings (26-50) quote Quran references. The quote I mentioned above in paragraph 31, gives no reference
in a footnote. (I have read well the
final sentence in para 29 about brevity.) So I am left asking: When a quote (like para 31) is not
footnoted, does it come from the Bible?
Or is it found in both the Bible and Quran? He says traditions are "well known" (para
29 last sentence) but because most of the time He appears to be addressing
Islam - I wonder if this "well known" applies within Islam,
Christianity or The World. As I am more likely to have a dialogue with a
Christian than a follower of Islam, I am particularly interested in knowing the
Biblical reference and making a note in my study copy of the Iqan. I would also like to be capable of pointing
out that the same quote is found in the Quran
.... as a progressive revelation
proof. (Flipping between the books of
three Manifestations with ease and confidence in front of a seeker would
contain such a powerful lesson about the equal station of Manifestations and
how Baha'is are commanded to give equal respect to each one. In fact, I am considering preparing a
fireside talk on the first fifty paragraphs of the Iqan and doing just that
with the Iqan, Bible and Quran.) So about the multi-Manifestation reference I
am asking about: Example:
Sun darken, stars fall from sky Bible/Revelations ?? :??
Quran ?? : ?? (& any other holy book??) Is there such a thing? QUESTION TWO Iqan paragraph 30: Baha'u'llah says:
"Were this "oppression" ... to be interpreted that the
earth is to become contracted ..." Is there such a "contraction"
interpretation? I am not
familiar with it in Christian thought (which does not mean of course that it
doesn't exist - but I thought I was aware of most of the nonsensical
interpretations commonly held). Is it
a common interpretation in Islam? Is it
common to both? Do some people believe
the earth is going to shrink into nothing - literally? Is it part of the Armageddon belief? __________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eddy Hall"
<voyger@intekom.co.za To: "Farzin Aghdasi"
<farzin.aghdasi@attbi.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 1:29 PM Subject: Re: QUESTION: QURAN/BIBLE PROPHESIES Dear Susan and all here is the reference (the stars shall fall
from heaven" Matt. 24:29-30. ) and a little more extracted from
"Baha'u'llah and the new Era" pg 226 onwards Signs in Heaven and Earth In the Hebrew, Christian, Muhammadan and many
other Scriptures, there is a remarkable similarity in the description of the
signs which are to accompany the coming of the Promised One. In the Book of Joel we read: -- And I
will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be
turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible
days of the Lord come. ... For, behold, in those days ... when I shall bring
again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and
will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat [Jehovah judgeth], and will
plead with them there. ... Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision:
for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and the moon
shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The Lord
also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the
heavens and the
earth shall shake; but the Lord will be the hope of his people. --Joel 2:30-31;
3:1-2, 3:14-16. Christ says: -- Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from
heaven, and
the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of
the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and
great glory. -- Matt. 24:29-30. In
the Qur'án we read: -- When
the sun shall be shrouded, And
when the stars shall fall, And
when the mountains are made to pass away ... And
when the leaves of the Book shall be unrolled, And
when the heaven shall be uncovered, And
when hell shall be made to blaze. -- Qur'án 81. In
the Book of Íqán Bahá'u'lláh explains that these prophecies about the sun, moon
and stars, the heavens and the earth, are symbolical and are not to be
understood merely in the literal sense. The Prophets were primarily concerned
with spiritual, not material, things; with spiritual, not with physical, light.
When They mention the sun, in connection with the Day of Judgment, They refer
to the Sun of Righteousness. The sun is the supreme source of light, so Moses
was a sun for the Hebrews, Christ for the Christians, and Muhammad for the
Muslims. When the Prophets speak of the sun being darkened, what is meant is
that the pure teachings of these spiritual Suns have become obscured by
misrepresentation, misunderstanding and prejudice, so that the people are in
spiritual darkness. The moon and stars are the lesser sources of illumination,
the religious leaders and teachers, who should guide and inspire the people.
When it is said that the moon shall not give her light or shall be turned into
blood, and the stars shall fall from heaven, it is indicated that the leaders
of the churches shall become debased, engaging in strife and contention, and
the priests shall become worldly minded, concerned about earthly instead of
heavenly things. The
meaning of these prophecies is not exhausted by one explanation, however, and
there are other senses in which these symbols can be interpreted. Bahá'u'lláh
says that in another sense the words "sun," "moon," and
"stars" are applied to the ordinances and instructions enacted in
every religion. As in every subsequent Manifestation the ceremonies,
forms, customs and instructions of the preceding Manifestations are changed in accordance with the requirements of the times, so, in this sense
the sun and moon are changed and the stars dispersed. In
many cases the literal fulfillment of these prophecies in the outward sense would
be absurd or impossible; for example, the moon being turned into blood
or the stars falling upon the earth. The least of the visible stars is many
thousand times larger than the earth, and were one to fall on the earth there
would be no earth left for another to fall on! In other cases, however, there
is a material as well as a spiritual fulfillment. For example, the Holy Land
did literally become desert and desolate during many centuries, as foretold by
the prophets, but already, in the Day of Resurrection, it is beginning to
"rejoice and blossom as the rose," as Isaiah foretold. Prosperous
colonies are being started, the land is being irrigated and cultivated, and
vineyards, olive groves and gardens are flourishing where half a century ago
there was only sandy waste. Doubtless when men beat their swords into
ploughshares and their spears into pruning hooks, wildernesses and deserts in
all parts of the world will be reclaimed; the scorching winds and sandstorms
that blow from these deserts, and make life in their neighborhood well-nigh
intolerable, will be things of the past; the climate of the whole earth will
become milder and more equable; cities will no longer defile the air with smoke
and poisonous fumes, and even in the outward, material sense there will be
"new heavens and a new earth." --
Esslemont, Bahá'u'lláh and the New Era _____________________ ----- Original
Message ----- From: Eddy Hall To: Farzin Aghdasi Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 1:02 PM Subject: Question #39 Dear Everyone 39. Quoting from the Bible to prove a point was most
uncommon among the Muslims. Discuss this unusual strategy of Baha'u'llah. Muhammad appeared after Christ therefore He, Christ, must
have established the signs of His return. We can find this in the
Gospels. This is easy to accept if you are a Muslim and once you accept
the idea can you then deny the Bab's claim? Baha'u'llah says, " In the first Gospel according to
Matthew it is recorded: And when they asked Jesus concerning the signs of His
coming, He said unto them: "Immediately after the oppression of those days
..., and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with
power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a
trumpet." -- Bahá'u'lláh, The Kitab-i-Iqan Simply put, Look in the Book of the previous Manifestation
to find the signs of the next. That's ok, but I must have played spiritual leap frog,
skipping Islam, to get here, as i am sure many of the friends on the course
have as well. So my question is, How do you apply this elegant teaching
method to a Christian audience as Christians have no problem with the Old
Testament who's books contain the Prophecies of the coming of Christ? Not only
that, they can be rather gleeful at times of the fact that the Jews didn't
catch on, so the basic understanding of attachment to the letter is there.
GOSH, or maybe it isn't !!! "It's one of those things we've been told by
religious leaders, but never thought about for ourselves" "And yet, they have sought the interpretation of
the Book from those that are wrapt in veils, and have refused to seek
enlightenment from the fountain-head of knowledge. -- Bahá'u'lláh, The Kitab-i-Iqan Warmest greetings Eddy Hall